Episode 2: Cyber Pulse - The Evolving Threat Landscape: Is AI Reshaping Cyber Insurance?
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Host: Rianna Mistry, SEO & Content Specialist at CyberCube
Guests: Nate Brink, Head of Broker Partnerships at CyberCube, Will Hatcher, Senior Client Account Manager at CyberCube, and Jenna Bhundoo, Lead Client Product Advisor.
Transcript
00:12
Rianna Mistry: Welcome to the CyberCube podcast. This episode is part of our Cyber Unlocked series where we explore how different parts of the insurance industry approach cyber risk. I'm your host, Rianna Mistry, Content Specialist at CyberCube, and today we'll be discussing what brokers can do to sell more successfully. I'm joined by three CyberCube experts, Nate Brink, Head of Broker Partnerships, Will Hatcher, one of our Senior Client Account Managers, and Jenna Bhundoo, our Lead Client Product Advisor.
00:41
Thank you all for being here. Let's start with introductions. Please tell us more about your role at CyberCube. Nate, could you start us off?
Nate Brink: Yeah, thanks, Rianna. So my name is Nate Brink and I lead our broker partnerships at CyberCube. What that means is I look after bringing on new and existing, growing our existing retail and wholesale broker partnerships at CyberCube.
Will Hatcher: Happy to be here. Will Hatcher. I work very closely with Nate and Jenna, who you'll meet shortly
01:11
looking after all of our retail wholesale partnerships here in the US and Canada. So really, the main priority is to ensure all of our existing clients are getting the most out of their investment in CyberCube. I come from the industry, I spent about five years as a broker at Willis Towers Watson on their cyber placement team. I'm at the tail end of the hard market and it was a little too much for me, so I decided to come over to CyberCube where I've been for the last four years.
01:44
Jenna Bhundoo: Thanks for having us, Rianna. I'm Jenna. I'm one of the client product advisors here at CyberCube. And essentially I help with getting clients onboarded and supporting them throughout their CyberCube journey. And like Will mentioned, meeting, helping them meet business objectives and really being a tool for them to utilize and capitalize on.
Rianna Mistry: Thank you. To kick us off.
02:14
If you had to explain cyber insurance to your grandma in one sentence, what would you say? Nate, you first.
Nate Brink: Oh boy. Okay. So if I was explaining this to my grandma, how cyber insurance works and why it's important, I would say if you were to be unable to use your computer and the different systems that you use on your computer, cyber insurance is a tool that would help you be able to
02:44
get up and running and using those systems and using your computer again very quickly.
Rianna Mistry: Will, do you want to jump in?
Will Hatcher: Yeah, absolutely. So I think first I'd probably sit my grandma down, maybe get a deck of cards out, start playing some gin rummy, you know, to capture her attention. And I'd, I think I'd lay it out as pretty much any business who's reliant upon the internet to conduct their business is at risk.
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of suffering some type of cyber incident, which can bring a varying degree of financial harm to their business. And cyber insurance is a way to kind of hedge against that happening. So if it did happen, you have kind of a security blanket that's going to help you recover and get back up and running as a business so that you can stay in business. And I think maybe that would resonate, maybe not, but I've found that's usually a good place to
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to start.
Rianna Mistry: Thanks, Will. And Jenna?
Jenna Bhundoo: I think it's quite funny because my grandma's recently discovered TikTok. So now during her downtime, she just sits there and she just like constantly scrolls through it. So I think I'd have to relate back to TikTok, probably something like cyber insurance is a safety net for anyone with some sort of online presence. And say if there is
04:13
some sort of malicious attack. Having cyber insurance means that you're financially supported to get back up and running.
Rianna Mistry: Great. I love those. I reckon my grandma might get it. Switching over to the broking side of things. What do brokers need more? Education or automation? Will, why don't you start us off for this one?
Will Hatcher: Yeah, I'm really interested to hear what Nate and Jenna have to say. I think we're all going to say the same thing and it's education, but maybe they'll
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they'll prove me wrong. I think for brokers, it's really important that their clients understand the nature of the risk that they face. A lot of businesses today that don't carry cyber insurance don't do so because they don't think they have an exposure. And so it really becomes critical for the broker to be able to convey to their clients what the risk is and why it's relevant.
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to them. So really, you the growth of this market, maybe I'm a little biased as a former broker and, you know, working very closely with brokers in this role at CyberCube, but the growth of the market really, you to me, kind of stems from brokers being able to successfully explain the risk to clients and sell the insurance and to do that, you know, education is, is a critical component of that. And then where I see automation coming in,
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That's almost to me like a second iteration or second phase for brokers who are looking to get into cyber insurance where they've developed a good understanding of the risk and how to communicate that to clients. And then they can look to kind of scale that effort in a way through automating some of their workflows. So what's the expression? Don't run before.
06:09
You learn how to walk, something like that. So I think it starts with education, but yeah, really curious to hear what Nate and Jenna have to say about that.
Nate Brink: I'll take that, Will. I very much agree with you. And if I just reflect on the conversations we continuously have with our existing broker partners, and just for context, there's, we always use the term specialists and generalists many times in the insurance industry. And I think
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specialists being maybe those that are focused or specializing in a particular line of business, cyber being one of them. We work with a lot of those folks today and a lot of those folks may be working with larger companies and placing insurance for larger organizations. Whereas generalists, we see this huge really opportunity and I think education is really the missing link here. We need to as an industry help generalists
07:08
be able to one, want to be proactive in talking about cyber risk and cyber insurance and having that conversation with small and medium sized businesses. What we in the industry will many times call SMBs or SMEs, but it actually stands for small medium enterprises. So small, medium, you know, insurance buyers ultimately. And so the generalists that are speaking to those companies,
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many times don't have the data, the context and supporting resources that allow them to have productive conversations about cyber with small and medium businesses. And so as a result of that, you get to what we're seeing today is many small and medium businesses are not carrying cyber insurance. They don't realize that they have a need for it, that they have exposure and
08:06
They are at risk. And so the more we can do as an industry to really help arm them and equip them with those tools, the data, to really have the context and put it in relevant terms for that person that's sitting on the other side of them, that insurance buyer, the better off we will be. Now I think automation is super important, but in the industry, we have a lot of insurance technology solutions already.
08:35
I think education we obviously see as a much bigger opportunity at least. But yeah, Jenna, I don't know. What do you think, Jenna? mean, you obviously talk to a ton of clients and brokers being and people that are placing cyber insurance and talking to clients about cyber insurance. What do you think about that between education and automation?
Jenna Bhundoo: I think it's three yeses to education. When I'm thinking
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automation, I’m thinking scaling outreach. So before the renewal process begins, making sure that brokers are reaching out to all the potential clients, prospects to really get them to sign the deal. I think it's one thing putting policies in front of clients or prospects, but it's another thing really
09:32
helping them and telling the story. And I feel like with a lot of the brokers that we're speaking to, that is where they struggle, trying to put the pieces together and really convince those micro small businesses to adopt cyber insurance. So yeah, I would go with education as well.
Wheels were kind of turning a little bit while both of you were speaking just then. I almost feel like
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Maybe I'm over overthinking it. Certainly wouldn't be the first time, but we could split education almost into like internal education and external education. First, I think Nate, you were kind of getting to this a little bit. Like first the brokers need to recognize the opportunity that's in front of them with cyber and put, you know, kind of steps in place to actually execute on that opportunity. And then it's okay.
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how do we explain this risk to clients and how do we educate our clients on why they need the risk? But first, brokers need to kind of look inward to say, okay, this is an opportunity for us. We're going to dedicate some resources into really developing this opportunity and becoming, you know, not necessarily a specialist, but building some expertise around this cyber line of business, this line of business, so that we can go out and then educate, you know, clients on why they need it. I, and Jenna, that ties in with what?
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You were saying as well with some of the brokers in the market, this constant, like, you know, how do we strike the perfect balance of where we're allocating our time? And especially if you look at a generalist broker who's placing lines of business, property, casualty, other executive lines, there's so much on their plate. And so, you know, what's kind of the incentive for them to spend time educating themselves on cyber and going out to sell, sell cyber. think.
11:27
That's an area that needs a lot of attention as well.
Nate Brink: That's a really good point. So will you bring up the point of there needs to be an incentive, right? Cause at the end of the day, role of the broker and or agent is risk advisor to advise that insurance buyer being a, whether it's a small, medium, large corporate business, they need to advise them one on their exposures.
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and then ultimately present risk transfer and risk management solutions to help them manage that exposure, transfer that exposure through insurance. And so one of the things that I know we keep talking about here at CyberCube is large organizations, you know, they're working with specialists. They're very much aware of the risks and the impact to their business. And they have resources.
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They have CISOs, Chief Information Security Officers, and a number of resources at their disposal. Whereas smaller medium businesses, the incentive is different for selling cyber insurance to them, meaning the commissions or the fees that the agent or broker may earn are much smaller. And so that's where, while education is very important, automation really can help support broader adoption because it can really help
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incentivize the generalists who may be the producer or the account manager be able to not only get educated a little bit quicker, but also be able to speak to more clients, process more submissions, have more conversations ultimately with clients so that technology is taking care of the redundant or administrative tasks that go along with simply selling and
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placing cyber insurance and they can focus more time on those client conversations. so while the commissions and economics of selling insurance into the SME or small medium enterprise space are challenging, it does present a great opportunity to bring resources that center around education and automation. So definitely a huge opportunity there. And I think, you we
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We definitely see different flavors of it, but again, it all kind of centers back to, think, again, education around, we have to make sure we are educating more insurance professionals at scale and then bringing that information to the insurance buyer so they better understand the unique exposure for their business and the solutions that they can do to transfer and manage that risk better.
Rianna Mistry: Okay, it's clear the answer here seems to be education.
14:19
What then do brokers need to actively do to become better for their clients and educate them in the way they need?
Nate Brink: Yeah, so I'll maybe start it off probably at the center of what the role that companies like CyberCube and many others are playing and really trying to help put the financial impact to cyber risk in very clear terms. So quantifying the financial exposure that a business has and really making it unique to them, giving them the context of
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Hey, the plumber, the bakery, all the way up to that very large telecommunications company, right? So each of those businesses have different exposures based on the size and where they're positioned. And so I think it's really important to make it relevant to them and really help them understand one, just based on the nature of the type of company they are.
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their presence on the internet and making sure they can understand with the context of them, the financial impact that comes along with cyber risk. Cause that's a, that's a currency we all understand as dollars and cents. And I think I stole that from Will, you know, early on, he's really always emphasized that with our clients is that look to talk about a lot of different cybersecurity terms to an insurance buyer.
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may not always go over extremely well. It's maybe a little bit of a foreign language, but if you can translate that into a language such as dollars and cents, financial terms, that's something that's easily understood. We all understand that. So I think that's one of the keys, putting it in financial terms.
Jenna Bhundoo: Just to add to that, I think there's a big challenge with eliminating the myth around cyber that if you're a micro company,
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possibly even in a smaller company, you're not going to be affected by cyber attacks. And I think that's like one of the biggest challenges that we're seeing with our brokers. especially so, Will, Nate, myself and the rest of the team, we attend quite a few networking events, where we get to speak to the wider market. And in that, I've seen that within those
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regions like APAC and EMEA, there's certain hesitation around adopting cyber. Some people just don't feel like there's any need to have these policies in place, especially if you're looking at a micro company, like Nate mentioned, a bakery down the street. It's really selling to them why they would be affected, focusing on their online footprint, their digital footprint, why it's vital for them to
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to have cyber.
Nate Brink: Jenna, and just to unpack that a little bit. it sounds like, and I've been with you in many of these conversations, but it sounds like they're still from the enterprise side, if you will, or the companies that are considering purchasing cyber insurance, still unclear to them that they need it. Is that kind of what you're saying?
Jenna Bhundoo: Definitely. I think it's growing. Demand for cyber is growing. But in certain regions, the penetration rates are still very low.
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because they don't think they need it, but also costs associated to it plays a part as well.
Nate Brink: So seeing the return on that investment, we really need to help illustrate that as an industry that there is a meaningful return on investment or benefit to buying the product being cyber insurance.
Jenna Bhundoo: Yeah, exactly.
Nate Brink: Yeah.
Will Hatcher: Yeah, I'd add too. I think there's probably more so outside of the US than anywhere else, but certainly inside the US as well.
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a certain healthy skepticism around, if I buy this insurance, will it actually end up paying out? Will I receive the benefit that I'm essentially investing in? that's one critical way that not even just brokers, also carriers can help educate the market on. This is a coverage that pays out and highlighting examples of kind
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I don't know if you could call them success stories, cause it's certainly never a good thing when a business suffers a cyber incident. But you know, the flip side of that is if you are protected, it can really be the difference between staying in business and not, especially you're, you're an SME. So I think that's part of it as well as helping to kind of break down, you know, some of that skepticism around whether or not policy is actually going to pay out. So yeah, that keeps coming up at.
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certain conferences that we're attending and feedback from those who are heavily in that SME space in particular.
Nate Brink: Yeah, that's a really good point too. And just building that confidence that yes, this is going to help protect and also maybe just highlighting more clearly what it pays for exactly, right? You're purchasing as a company, a cyber insurance product, a policy, and you want to be able to understand if something bad does happen to your business.
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What exactly do I do next? What is the cyber insurance going to cover? What is it going to pay for? So I can get back to up and running my business. And many times we see that, you know, just the disruption of being able to operate your business, the income that's lost is one of those really big expenses. And I think in the SME space, again, many times while they may not be the target of a very well-funded
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tactical, persistent type of threat actor. The reality is they are probably the victim of a very opportunistic, maybe even very automated type of attack and a malicious software maybe being deployed on their network. And so if they're unable to access their system, if they're unable to transfer funds on a regular basis that they're doing with other companies they do business with, that's going to disrupt their business.
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can impact their payroll, their ability to pay their suppliers. And so sometimes I think it's really important for us to back up a second and just sit down and understand what that business does on a day-to-day basis to operate, how dependent it is and highlight their dependency on technology to do so. And the more we can help the agent or the broker that's having those conversations,
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more proactively around just on understanding the different exposures that the business has. And if a single point of failure, as we would call it at CyberCube, so a technology that maybe they're very dependent upon and many businesses that look like them are very dependent upon. If that type of technology is compromised, there's a pretty wide impact and it can be pretty catastrophic even. So I think the more that we can put that in, contextualize that and educate those.
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those companies around that, I think the better off the industry is going to be.
Will Hatcher: I'd jump in too and just add something that I heard from one of our broking partners that really resonated with me, which was, we are as the broker primarily interacting with individuals at our client organizations that are quote unquote, the defender, the defenders of the budget. And so being able to
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assign dollars to the risk, contextualize the risk in financial terms is just extremely important for not only being able to sell insurance, but also, you know, advise on the appropriate level of insurance that those defenders of the budget can then communicate internally to their stakeholders around why this is something we need to do, why we need budget allocated towards this. So even thinking through those different layers of
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Who are all these stakeholders in the conversations that need to happen? You might not at face value think of placing insurance, maybe needing all of those different layers to go through, but it's extremely, extremely important, especially at those larger organizations, be able to arm as a broker your clients with the key talking points and data to support their recommendations internally.
Rianna Mistry: All right. So we've discussed those who are more reluctant to buy cyber.
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But in terms of conversations that brokers are having with clients that know they want cyber, what kinds of questions are they getting and what can help brokers anticipate those questions?
Nate Brink: Yeah, I'll kick us off here. I think one of the big questions I think is, especially in the SME space again, is really understanding what it could mean for their type of business. So meaning the type of industry they work in, understanding technologies they're using, and they're really trying to understand
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What's their exposure? Right. And so they want to understand it specific to their business. And then that follow-up, really think is many times just simply what are companies like us doing? Like help us understand what companies like us are doing and what they're doing to manage this risk better. And so that's where the agent can really play a vital role. Many times agencies or brokers, they may focus on specific industry verticals and really specialize in a specific industry vertical. so.
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when they choose to specialize, it can really help them educate clients because they understand those businesses better, right? They understand their day-to-day operation. They understand the nature of that business, the exposures that go along with it. And so I think just understanding the exposure unique to their business and what other companies like them are doing to transfer that risk and better manage that risk.
Jenna Bhundoo: Just to step in there, like three questions that I probably live by nowadays.
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is what is my financial exposure in regards to cyber? What are my peers doing? And how to really prepare for that, prepare for being an insurable policy. So set like what type of security protocols do I need to have in place? And I may or may not know a vendor that answers all these questions, but.
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Yeah, I think those are the three main questions that brokers are getting and they should be prepared to answer from their clients.
Nate Brink: Yeah, it's a really good point. And Jenna, I always think I use the analogy of, like you can't necessarily control the inherent exposure that you have just based on the nature of what your business is and the growth that you're going to pursue as a business is going to open up more exposure for you naturally. However, that's where the
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controllable side comes in. being the security side, you know, what can we do as a business to better protect us and mitigate that exposure that we have? can't control everything, but that's where security can come into play and really helping businesses understand what an insurance company, a carrier, their underwriter is going to really want to see that they have from a security posture standpoint.
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brokers and agents can play a really, really important role to help be proactive in building that awareness across the insurance buyer and their organization to help them ultimately just have a better process and easier experience when they go to buy cyber insurance and renew their cyber insurance policy.
Jenna Bhundoo: I can speak to that in terms of the underwriting side because as you both know, I was on the underwriting side of the market. And one of the biggest challenges I had with
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binding deals is that certain security protocols weren't met for certain thresholds, which meant that I would have to automatically decline the deal. So I know the markets moved since then, like I'm talking from two years ago, and we're less risk averse than when cyber initially was up and coming. But I do think that is a challenge from underwriters, and I can see why it is.
Will Hatcher: Yeah, no, I would even add
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I think carriers have done, along with brokers, carriers have done a great job of rising kind of the security standards across the market for those who are looking to buy cyber insurance. And brokers play a really important role in communicating and kind of contextualizing that to their clients. Like, why are these controls important? Why does your carrier care about this? And I think brokers take different approach
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approaches to doing that. You know we work with brokers who have been in the cyber market for a long time and they're finding what's the right balance as insurance advisors for us, understanding that there is a security element to this coverage. So how can we best advise our clients on that side? And they kind of stood up their own, what they call cyber risk consulting teams who come in and can do a bit more of a deep dive into the security part of the transaction.
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working alongside the insurance arm. And then you have other brokers who maybe they're relying on third parties to kind of help that process. You also have carriers who have their own relationships that a policyholder can take advantage of to improve their hygiene. And it's kind of up to the broker to be able to communicate that. So yeah, it's interesting as you take a step back and CyberCube is fortunate enough to work with such a diverse set of brokerage clients globally.
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to really get a sense of different strategies depending on the nature of the business and the nature of the companies that they are servicing. And it evolves over time too. So that's also just a really fascinating part of this market.
Rianna Mistry: Speaking of evolution, what should cyber brokers be thinking about now in terms of the future and next steps?
Nate Brink: Yeah, I might take this, thinking about those brokerages that are
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maybe not in cyber. And what I mean by that is maybe they haven't established a cyber business, meaning a strategy, a sales process. And I think what we see a lot of times is there's many brokerages that we'll speak to and they want to sell cyber insurance, but today it's a bit more reactive instead of proactive, meaning they may not feel that they're ready yet to put a strategy around it. And I think the big thing that I see happening is the leadership.
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especially of these maybe more regional retail brokerages and or retail agencies, I think there's going to be a shift over the next few years and investment in making sure their personnel, their producers, their account managers are really much more confident and willing to proactively bring up the conversation of cyber insurance and putting a process around that. You know, if you just remove cyber for a second,
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a lot of retail agency and brokerages, have a process in which they go about selling commercial insurance today and benefits, right? And so now it's simply just figuring out and educating themselves, but also their clients on cyber exposures, unique to their clients that they already serve today and bringing that, the right products to them.
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bringing the right data to help support them. Again, it comes back to simply being their trusted risk advisor. So I do see investment coming from, again, more of those maybe regional retail brokerages, retail agencies that may be especially serving the SME market in particular, right? And so today, when you look globally in terms of SMEs, only around 20 % of them
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are carrying a standalone cyber insurance policy. Many, many don't have any really sort of coverage. Many may have what we call in the industry a package policy, which provides a very small amount of insurance. And so we need to really help convert those to a standalone policy that more adequately covers the exposure. And so I see that investment coming into place, but again, it is an investment. And so I think that
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you don't always see the return on your investment right away. So what I'm really curious to see is kind of how quickly will that happen, especially right now while we are in what we call a very soft market pricing for cyber insurance is discounted or much cheaper now than normally it would be during a harder market. so knowing that cyber insurance market is cyclical, right? It's going to go from a soft market to hard market.
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And historically what we've seen is it moves very fast compared to the broader PNC commercial insurance market in that it shifts from a soft to hard market very quickly. So I think those, those agents and brokers, their leadership, those principles, those COOs and presidents that decide to really invest in not only personnel, but also technology to stand up a cyber business. And the sooner they do that, the better they're going to be.
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situated in the long term.
Will Hatcher: Yeah, Nate, I think that's spot on. think as far as, yeah, what's next? It's investment. mean, there are these growth projections out there as to how big the market's going to get, and it's not going to grow itself, so to speak. And I think a big source of that growth is really what we're talking about, brokers making the investment to establish a strategy for how
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they're going to tap into the cyber market and then be able to execute on that strategy. And a big part of that is, you know, looking at what type of data analytics do we need to support that strategy? Is there, you know, kind of a digital strategy that we need to undergo so that we can, you know, automate some of these activities. A lot of brokers we talk to, especially more regional brokers or generalist brokers, when they look across their entire
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Property and Casualty Book of Business, the cyber uptake is under 10%, in many cases under 5%. And that's just such a huge opportunity for those brokerages. But it does, as Nate was mentioning, require investment to be able to actually capture that opportunity. And it'll be, yeah, very interesting to see how that plays out over the next 18 months, not only just within the US, but...
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Globally, know Jenna works very closely too with a lot of our non-US brokerage clients. So a little bit of a different flavor there, but yeah, I think that's spot on. It's really the investment and where that's going to come from and who's going to stick with it as well, especially with the market the way that it is.
Rianna Mistry: Thank you all. You've provided some really interesting perspectives around the cyber-breaking market. To finish us off.
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What is the most underrated skill a broker needs to be successful going forwards?
Will Hatcher: I think it depends on your kind of book of business, like the type of companies that you're servicing usually. But in this case, I think this extends to all types of brokers. And I think it, not to overly simplify it, but your ability to build relationships with clients.
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and prospects as a trusted advisor. That isn't just a slogan that brokers use. It's such a relationship-driven business, not only on the client side, but on the carrier side as well. so as a broker, being able to successfully build relationships that are built on trust with both clients and underwriters, I think is a non-negotiable ingredient for success if you're a broker in the market, no matter the state.
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of the market. So that's what I always came back to. It's not so much how well do you know the coverage. Of course, that's important, but it's really kind of back to that. What's the level of trust you have with your clients and your carrier partners?
Nate Brink: I would agree. and even building on that, relationships are so important. And I think that empathy right now is a really important skill in particular, because you're meeting insurance buyers where they're at today.
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And they may not have the expertise or experience that you have being a cyber broker who's working in this world every day, who understands the emerging trends, the threat landscape and the market dynamics. so I think being empathetic to who you're speaking with and recognizing that this is going to be a process. It's going to be a process of educating them and helping them.
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understand that this is an important risk to their business and putting that right back in financial terms to educate them on the need for it and then bringing them the right solutions when it comes time for them to see that. But I think it's also, it's going to take time. It's not going to be getting to the solution that they need to have overnight. They may need to first just better understand the risks to their business, begin carrying coverage
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Even though it may not be the sufficient amount of coverage, but just beginning to buy that product for the first time, beginning to go through renewing that cyber insurance policy for the first time. And you, as a cyber broker, whether you're generalists or specialists, if you can be empathetic and really help, you know, ride alongside that buyer where they're at currently, you're going to be there for a long time and you're going to grow with their business.
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And I think of that very similar to our position at cyber cube. We're really beginning to partner with brokers that some of them are farther along than others in their cyber journey, if you will. And so really trying to meet them where they're at and figure out what's the first step. Let's start there and then build from there. You know, we're not going to accomplish everything overnight. Again, I was related back to like, uh, I was a college athlete. played football. The university of Michigan. walked on there and.
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I had these lofty goals when I got there, but the reality is they weren't going to be accomplished in the first week or the first month of practice. I had to establish goals that were manageable and practical goals. And sometimes they weren't always accomplished as quickly as I would have liked them to be. But if you just remain consistent and keep going, putting a process together, keep executing against that process, over time you're going to see results and more times than not.
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So I think again, the relationships are huge, the process is huge, but being empathetic and really just kind of having empathy and recognizing where are we starting? And wherever that is, that's okay. If you have $100,000 of cyber revenue, if you have $100 million of cyber revenue as a brokerage, both are great. And so we just need to get more folks getting into cyber and more folks continuing to stay the course.
Jenna Bhundoo: I think my key skill for brokers would
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be to be adaptable. Just coming into cyber with an open mind. I think if you compare cyber to other traditional lines of businesses that have been set for years and you've been doing a certain thing. I mean, before I was in cyber, I was in energy and power and it's very structured. People have been in that industry for years and
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It's very developed and like coming into cyber, well, cyber is quite volatile. Every day is literally very different. You really do need to adapt to the cyber landscape. And I think by doing that, they're going to be ahead of the game. And it comes back to what Nate and Will were mentioning earlier, like investing early. You might not see the returns now, but really and truly it's a thing. cyber is fundamental.
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Just adapting that and opening your mind to accepting it.
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Rianna Mistry: Thank you for listening to this episode of the CyberCube podcast where we break down cyber risk, insurance and everything in between. If you enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe on your preferred listening platform and tune in for the next episode. And don't forget to check out www.cybercube.com or find us on LinkedIn or X for extra content and updates. Until next time, stay informed, stay resilient and keep shaping the future of cyber insurance.